by Royce Jorden
WW 1 Thru Early Viet Nam
In June of 1918, advancing German forces, full of success from previous engagements with allied forces, proceeded forward in an auspicious display of might at Belleau Wood. Waiting for the advance were US Marines armed with M1903 Springfield rifles. The Kaiser’s Army was given the surprise of their very lives having to confront aimed, accurate and deadly placed shooting. The advance was halted…
June 6, 1944, Allied Troops launched the massive invasion of Normandy. German defenses were quite formidable, and US Troops at Omaha and Utah beaches suffered greatly as a result. Pure grit and the main battle rifle used, the M1 Garand, plus the Thompson sub-machine gun, overwhelmed the German beach defenses and became the starting point in France for long road to Berlin.
November 27, 1950 thousands of communist soldiers of the Chinese Army attacked UN and US Marines at the Chosen Reservoir in northern Korea. In the bitter cold, Marines stood their ground using Garands, M1 carbines and 1911 A1s to great effect, allowing the small garrison to evacuate south.
November 14,1965 the North Vietnamese Army and the Viet Cong launched a conventional attack on US Troops in the la Drang Valley region. The US Troops deployed for battle by helicopters, and used M16 battle rifles to crush the assaults.
I am forever fascinated by our country’s Armed Services Men and Women. For as long as I can recall, I would listen to family members, friends and acquaintances who wore the uniforms of service to our country, and the stories they could provide would leave you in awe and introspect, or just plain horror, sadness and with some a bit of apostacy. One thing is for certain, when it comes to combat duty…if the protected simply can’t understand why someone is having such a hard time dealing with or adjusting after such a life changing experience, consider your happy butt fortunate that you don’t have to understand!
Most all real Americans have had friends and family members serve in combat duties, and some they never met because they didn’t come home. It is good to have people who made it through the storms, to tell the facts and not bloviate their part in the matter. Many detailed their respect for, or disdain for, the weapons provided to them by our Government.
In the early 1980s I was fortunate enough to meet a WWII combat veteran of the European Theater. William Z. “Bill” Gatewood arrived at Normandy on D3, and survived numerous encounters with German Wehrmacht and SS troops on his way to Germany. He had a tremendous respect for the enemy and would tell you right quick them SS troopers were “some soldiers” and their people knew how to make “stuff” for war. He was fond of the German tools of their trade, the engineering and ergonomics. Bill’s “figgerin” on that issue was due to hands on experience, coon fingering captured arms and comparing it to our equipment. He wasn’t hypothetical about his decisions and knew from his experience what would make a friend or a foe consider their pants as peed.
A buddy of mine, Tony Foster, was ‘bout near raised by Bill. We helped Bill and his step son, Mike Seely, put a building together that ended up being called Mike’s Gun shop. Mike was accomplished as a gunsmith, and Bill was purty fair at it as well. What he was quite excellent at, especially to the benefit of Foster and me, was to procure some of the neatest, best shape and condition, older military firearms you could imagine for ultimate sale. Rifles, shotguns and sidearms. There were so many different arms to… ahem… “shoot- in” that I recall a constant state of sore shoulder. Springfield 03’s, Enfield 1917’s, 1911’s and 1911 A1’s, M1 Garands, M1 Carbines, Colt and S&W revolvers (M1917s). That does not include the non-US made military guns. I stated before, he was impressed with Germanic manufacturing. The only guns not available for us were full auto possibles…M2 Carbines, M14 and M16s. BARs and belt fed weapons were not in the cards for us … go figger.
Shooting the above guns was a dream, and educational. As Will Rogers said “There are three kinds of men: those that learn by reading, those that learn from observation, and the rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” One could learn expeditiously what guns to hold snug and which to get your fingers out of the way when loading…M1 Garand Thumb seriously comes to mind. Few things are as satisfying in a shooting session as the “Ping” of an empty bloc clip exiting an M1 Garand when you run it dry.
He also was a stickler for not putting “high octane” rounds in the 03s and Enfield 1917, or the 1911 due to metals being not up to snuff for the pressures. You gotta respect that…like most of the learning he passed to interested and aspiring gun nuts. He was the type of old warrior that made you ponder…If you want to thank a combat veteran, be the type of American worth fighting for.
Bill is gone now, and so is the gun shop that entertained my family, friends and I for such a long time. The interest in last century’s arms ain’t nowhere near being gone. I’ve stated in my previous writings how much I enjoy firearms manufactured from 1900 to about the early 80’s. Not just my hunting guns, but my fascination for the military guns in that time frame.
I was heading to a gun show in Henderson, TX a while back, and saw a sign for a gun shop on county road 4616 in Cherokee County a few miles out of Troup, TX. I hadn’t been to it yet, so I visited the location…Texas Tactical Training Center…1110 CR 4616 carrying a Troup address (903-372-9472). The owner is Brandon Hart, and he is Marine combat veteran, an FFL dealer and holds a FFL classification for full auto firearms. I had a chance to sit with him regarding my military arms affinity in the above stated time period. I was in luck, as he had the same enjoyment and stock of guns to prove it. I kind’a like the idea that me being my authentic self will help scare off a lotta the folks who aren’t meant to be near me. Hart ain’t one of ‘em.
Hart was in the Corp from 2006 to 2010. He served with the 1st Marine Div./ 7th Marines as a SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon) gunner in Weapons Company and Animal Company during his deployments in Iraq. He owns and operates Texas Tactical and advised he loves the firearms training career follow up from the Corp as this gives folks an opportunity to shoot firearms they would never be able to touch, much less shoot. The firearms are available to shoot, for a fee, and fully auto firearms are included. Memberships are available to help expedite any paperwork process needed to use the facility.
Hart knew his arms history and he, like Bill Gatewood, was not hypothetical in his knowledge. He began explaining firearms manufacturers, learned quite a bit of information after 1970 due to previous wars being fought, and the needs of the military they designed from that. He said in the late 60s and 70s law enforcement was getting the hand me downs from the military, and it included Garands, the M1 carbines, Thompsons, M14s, M16s…all lend lease programs they even use today for law enforcement use only.
Hart addressed the battle guns in order, WW1, and explained the Americans, especially Marines were issued Springfield 03. The M1917 Winchester and Remington caliber 30/06 were greatest in numbers issued. Shots fired in no-mans land areas of the trenches made it possible for shooting 500 yards or more, and was common. Open sight shooting. There wasn’t a scout sniper program at that time, but Marine Corp marksmanship was leaps and bounds over all the other outfits and the Germans learned this the hard way. He mused at the changes made by folks in the past to “sporterising” these military guns, calling it “fudderising” endearing to the cartoon character Elmer Fudd. He explained, he has had several rifles brought to him to restore, and they were difficult to near impossible after the “bubba smith’n” took place. Folks got the guns cheap in the 50s…5 and 10 bucks for an 03 Springfield. They wanted to make hunting rifles from these older military guns. These rifles can go for $500 to $1000 dollars plus now.
Hart advised the CMP (Civilian Marksmanship Program) had difficulty getting American military released guns that could be sold to citizens. They came across foreign purchased stockpiles that were made available. The fiasco of the mid 90s Clinton regime destroyed untold numbers of historical American military surplus guns that had been available to the American public. Foreign country stockpiles were left for retrieval, either purchased by those governments from the US, or the US just left the supplies and equipment after leaving because of the inconvenience of retrieving it. The US government just makes more because in our governments way of doing things, there is an endless checkbook. They also don’t want civilians to obtain our own surplus for fear of some idiot putting them on the hook for an issue that makes bad press. I still recall the difference between a government and thieves is the thieves don’t pretend they’re helping you.
Hart was the same thought process on German Manufactured weapons by Mauser and Walther as Bill Gatewood did, acknowledging they were very smart, and made great weapons. He advised the captured German FG-42 , MG 34 and MG/42 were all examined by US Military specialist and the best parts of each of these systems were put into one US belt fed system…the cal. 7.62, M-60.
Hart advised the 1911 Colt 45 acp originated in 1908, but was assigned by the military as sidearm in 1911. He said the original he shot was a 1915 made gun, and it was sloppy feeling due to age and usage. He also, as Bill Gatewood insisted, used only lower pressure rounds in these guns due to the metal used back then. He advised these guns have great value now, and a recent auction he attended had two original war guns…both from Remington and had paperwork and a warning to not shoot modern ammo in them.
The 1897 Winchester pump “Trench Gun” was a terror to the Germans in WW1 trenches, due to buckshot spread and “fan-fire” capabilities. Germans complained about the weapon as a violation of the laws of war and unethical, but they used mustard gas and had more belt fed machine guns than all the other nations. Hart explained our only advantage was we had more tanks. He also declared the Germans made use of flame throwers and WW1, burning the allies alive…talk about unethical.
The American Gun Guru we know and respect was John Browning. He invented and built several weapons systems used for sporting and past military operations, gave us the 1911, the BAR (Browing Automatic Rifle), and the A5 shotgun, which include the Remington and Savage humpback copies. Hart advised he still has tracer rounds used to teach infantry and anti-aircraft gunners how to lead their targets…extremely useful in the Pacific theater during Japanese Kamikazi attacks on our Navy. The most used weapon at that time was the Browning A5 and Remington M11 systems. Most farm boys and rural men knew how to hit moving targets already because they hunted to eat. City slickers didn’t have a clue, and had to be taught.
The WWII M1 Garand was considered by Gen. G Patton to be the greatest battle rifle developed up to that time. Hart advised that was debatable. Hart believed the 10 round 1941 Johnson rifle was superior, and used heavily by Marines in the Pacific theater. It could be reloaded and topped off easier, but was not issued in near the quantities as the M1 Garand, which was everywhere. M1 Garand was US Govt issue and Johnson was not. Regardless, no other country had two such magnificent long range infantry rifles as the US military for WWII. He also noted the only “Garand Thumb” he was familiar with was from well worn, sloppy guns that had worn parts. Battle guns could have easily seen over 10 thousand plus rounds and that takes its toll. Newer weapons were not likely to cause the thumb.
Harts M1 Thompson was a British SAS assigned weapon due to its high cycle rate. The Thompson rifles also came in the form of the military issued US M1 A1, which only used stick mags and had a lower cycle rate for more control of the fire discipline. This system is an open-bolt operated Blish system with a right side bolt handle. Stick in the magazine, move the safety and fire. The rate is a slower round discharge, and much easier for aimed fire. The 1928 Navy Thompson, typical of the roaring 20s Tommy Gun, would accept stick or drum mags, but used a Cutt’s compensator on the barrel to attempt more control, and was more naturally LOUD. A faster cycle rate, this weapon charged by over-the-top swipe. All these guns are heavy, 12 plus pounds empty, and shoot 45acp rounds adding much more weight to the mix…good times for the infantry man…but they shoot like a dream.
The M1 Carbine came out about 1941, as the US Ordnance Dept called for an infantry rifle lighter than the M1 Garand, but with a greater range than the 1911A1. The Thompson was considered too heavy and hard to maintain, and Winchester developed the 30 Cal carbine M1 that was perfect for both theaters in WW2 and carried over like the Garand into Korea. Though it was designed for rear guard, front-line combatants determined they liked the weight and handling of the system, and went to procuring these rifles in favor over the M1 Garands. Although the 30 Carbine round was only a short-range rifle, and not near as effective as a 30/06 rifles, the M1 Carbine was the most produced weapon in that time frame.
Hart explained that war time manufactured guns were made by several companies, and many of the rifles have mix-matched parts, mostly in the M1 Garand and Carbine rifles. If you go to the end of the barrel, you can see a proof mark…Springfield had the contract after Korea to overhaul the rifles. The mark should be a bursting bomb and a date code. None of the mix match parts effect the rifle’s ability to function, but it has to do with the originality of the rifle. This is important in determining the value. You are going to pay quite a bit for an original parts rifle. He advised most guns people come across are going to be shooter or rack grade, sloppy and dark, with shot out barrels. They work, and they are expensive themselves without having the original status. Replacement barrels are available for these old war horses that are not unreasonable, and restore accuracy considerably for the system.
Hart advised the M14 rifles came into existence in the late 1950s, and were short lived. It was a semi-to -full auto battle rifle that was hard to control. The 7.62 (308 Winchester) round was an offspring of the 300 Savage, not the 30/06, and offered a reasonable range battle rifle for the infantry after the lessons learned from Korea. There was a change in the air for a lighter, easier to control battle rifle for the infantryman.
Hart mentioned the sniper rifles of the time frame, and he was most familiar with the Model 70 Winchester bolt action rifle. He advised US Snipers Carlos Hathcock and Chuck Mawhinney used the Model 70 as it was the most popular, and the snipers grew up hunting using these same bolt actions. The guns actions were identical to the K98 Mauser (go figger), and Winchester paid for the patent use. The pre-1964 controlled feed bolt action Winchester model 70 is an American-made Icon, and my personal Model 70s are incredible.
Hart wanted to bring attention to some forgotten weapons of our Grand Pappys, the 45acp revolvers made by S&W and Colt. He advised WW1 US Ordnance Dept requested handgun manufacturer Smith & Wesson to manufacture revolvers in the 45acp, as there was a surplus of ammo in that round configuration. After acceptance, they realized they could not make the volume demanded by the military, so they contacted their competitor and rival, Colt, to assist manufacturing. There was not enough 1911s to go around, and the army always got first choice. Marines were issued the 1917 revolvers with the half-moon clips to keep the round in the cylinder. There was even a 45 Colt auto rim round to allow rounds to be placed without the moon clips. These M1917 revolvers from both manufacturers apparently were dearly loved by all military personnel assigned them, and for the boar size the recoil was quite manageable and accurate. Keep low energy rounds in mind again due to the firearm age.
Hart advised if there was any one rifle or sidearm of his inventory he does not prefer to shoot, he said it would be the 1917 Enfield. He declared the rifle doesn’t fit him, and the ergonomics are off for his comfort. He preferred his 03 Springfield over the Enfield, but his favorite is his Garand. I couldn’t argue with him at all, as the Enfield does have a purty good whop to it. But, you have to shoot it because you’ll miss 100% of the shots you don’t take, as I recall.
Hart advised the direct impingement system M16 of the Viet Nam era ended up as the stand issue rifle for service men. He advised he appreciated the Armalite 180 due to its operating systems, but the M16 took front seat. The rifles of the era used what is referred to as “pencil barrels” and they got red hot due to the way they trained infantry to fire full auto, dump the mag and reload, then repeat. Very tough on thin barrels. Heavier barrels of later models helped with that issue…but hot is hot. I’m an AR shooter, like many who read our stories. Trust me when I say the heat after an M16 touches off will hair-lip you, especially when its already hot outside.
I don’t remember which was faster, the Thompson or the M-16, but both will throw a lot of bullets in a very short time.
Viet Nam introduced new riot shotgun systems: Winchester 12 and 1200, Stevens 520 and 77, Ithaca 37 and the Remington 870. These buckshot blasters were a close quarter gun like their predecessors. Most folks who hunt using pump shotguns have touched off a round or two at a moving target, or scared hell out of a thief or truculent predator out to do harm. 870 systems have long lingered in military and Law Enforcement circles for its effectiveness.
Man, the history and tools of the trade when our GrandPappy’s had to fight!
Trust me when I say at a VA somewhere, there’s a century plus old warrior in a wheelchair who was a bigger badass at 20 than most folks will ever be…Thank him!
I’ve heard it stated many times, and I can find no error:
Along with the names of our Fallen Hero Law Enforcement Officers and First Responders, the most precious metals on this planet are the dog tags of our warriors who made the ultimate sacrifice to protect our Country’s freedom. Amen.
